honda0105
Champion Author
Tallahassee
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Message Posted: Feb 3, 2012 3:17:22 AM
and what does the whole politician debate have to do with the posted article?
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LanguageMan1
Champion Author
Tampa
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Message Posted: Feb 1, 2012 5:49:19 AM
I would rather Ron Paul than any of them including the current occupier of the white house, as he's less of a liar than the rest and for his stances on many issues, including doing away with much of our foreign aide. We need to take care of our own, which is something we don't do. Even the Obamacare is a farce, though many here say we have health care; and if it were so, geez, I'd like to get it myself. I'm glad Gingrich didn't win Florida though, and I regret that most likely we'll see dumbo in the white house again later this year for another term.
On this topic, the unions are part of the elite of this country now, and work with them against the rest of us rather than for the individual worker. Union members give their leaders exhorbitant salaries, much like those at the top in corporate leadership and neither are worth it, much like politicians not being worth what they're paid. Hopefully, those at the top will suffer yet for all the suffering they've caused here at home, as well as elsewhere in the world.
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SammyAdams
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Tallahassee
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 11:13:50 PM
To: CrappieFool Re: Message Posted: Feb 1, 2012 1:31:01 AM (Printed below)
"You read more into what I said than is actually there. We will have to agree to disagree. Paul is nutty, whacko imho. You think he is the savior of this country. Neither of us is totally correct. If BO stays in office, it won't matter one way or the other."
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Not to belabor any point or whip a dead mule, my only disagreement with you concerned our current foreign policy. We provoke violence from other countries when we preemptively bomb them and occupy their country. If you want to read the report that the 9/11 Commission wrote, you would discover that it gave "blowback" as the reason for terrorist incidents like the bombing of the Twin Towers. Rudy Guilliani jumped all over Ron Paul when he referenced that in the debate in 2008, but it was in the official 9/11 report. He showed his ignorance (Imagine the Mayor of New York not having even read that document) when he attacked Dr. Paul
Again, you have besmirched the character of Ron Paul by calling him "whacko", because you disagree with his foreign policy. At the same time, you haven't even offered an apologetic for the "Bush - Obama" foreign policy that is impoverishing our nation and will be the strategy to destroy our dollar and ultimately our country.
I do not think of him as a savior of our country, except if he was to be held in contrast to the current occupant of the White House. There is much that I disagree with his views, but I can see far enough down the road to where we are going and am able to bury minor differences in order to free our land from the enemies who would destroy it.
Let me posit one last scenerio. We could very well defeat BO and still lose our freedoms. Are you aware that the Clinton administration tried to pass legislation similar to the "Patriot Act"? Congress wouldn't buy it because it gave the Government the authority to "spy" on Americans without securing a search warrant. Now that this has died down a little, they have passed the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) and are trying to pass the Expatriation Act, and also gain control over what might be the last bastion of freedom that we have (Internet), by passing SOPA, etc.
My question to you is: "How much loss of freedom will you accept before you feel like our Founders did when they issued the Declaration Of Independence? What is more important: The FORM of government that we have? Or the AMOUNT of government that we have? Think about that for a while. Gotta go. We can catch up later.
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SammyAdams
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Tallahassee
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 10:39:29 PM
To: CrappieFool Re: Message Posted: Feb 1, 2012 12:45:08 AM (Printed below)
"He is a nut. I am done with this inane debate. The "entitlements" (welfare of all types) cost the US much more than anything else, Unions included. The constitution DOES provide for the defense of this country, but not the socialist welfare state the US has become.
Read your history. You "may" learn something about defense of a country."
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I never disagreed with you about entitlements and welfare spending. That is a "non sequitur". In fact, if we were to address that issue, I would take you back to the Constitution and ask anyone to cite the reference to providing food stamps, subsidized housing, etc. Dr. Ron Paul would not only agree with this, but has been the only consistent voiuce over the years in this regard. He has:
* Never voted to raise taxes.
* Never voted for a bailout.
* never voted for an unbalanced budget.
So to this, I assume that you would agree with Ron Paul. But as stated in my last post, the money that we spend on defense is not necessarily the best use of what should be spent in defending our country ($1 billion for construction of embassy in Baghdad).
What I am saying is that While the Democrats are mostly promoting the "Welfare" state, the neocon Republicans are mostly promoting the "Warfare" state. Although it is becoming ever more difficult to tell the donkeys from the elephants. The Republicans have given us much of our debt on social welfare and BO is am example of Democratic President who loves to burden us with debt from war, as well.
If you can take the time to watch a two minute video, "Google" or search youtube for the video of a speech by Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, given before our Congress recently. I tried twice. . . . (uh, make that three times) now to send to you the link, but it erases my entire post when I do. This is part of YOUR history assignment. He said that Israel doesn't need the U.S. to defend them, but that they can take care of themselves.
I'll be available at any time or venue when you are ready to discuss history, whether current or ancient.
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CrappieFool
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Alabama
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 10:31:01 PM
You read more into what I said than is actually there. We will have to agree to disagree. Paul is nutty, whacko imho. You think he is the savior of this country. Neither of us is totally correct. If BO stays in office, it won't matter one way or the other.
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SammyAdams
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Tallahassee
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 10:02:31 PM
To: CrappieFool One thing that I recall having learned as a child is that when you cannot persuade someone with logic and facts, you just start calling him names, which is what you have done with everyone who has dared to say anything contrary to your position.
I would much prefer having Ron Paul as President who was confident in his armed forces and who went to Congress for a declaration of war over against a President who acted unilaterally and began a preemptive strike against a third world country like Iran. Believe me, Israel is not a country who will take any crap from Iran and they can defend themselves without our help.
The point being made is that we do not need to be the policeman of the world. While others are trying to develop their economies, we are providing them with police protection for free. And you agree with the Bush - Obama policy. You didn't answer my question, so I'll state it again. "Would it be easier for our troops to defend America from home along our borders, rather than having our supply lines stretched around the globe?"
We could spend less money on defense if we spent it strictly on defense. Building an embassy in Baghdad for a billion dollars out of our DEFENSE budget might be a tad much, don't you think?
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CrappieFool
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Alabama
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 9:45:08 PM
He is a nut. I am done with this inane debate. The "entitlements" (welfare of all types) cost the US much more than anything else, Unions included. The constitution DOES provide for the defense of this country, but not the socialist welfare state the US has become.
Read your history. You "may" learn something about defense of a country.
[Edited by: CrappieFool at 2/1/2012 12:54:09 AM EST]
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SammyAdams
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Tallahassee
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 9:32:46 PM
To: CrappieFoolRe: Message Posted: Feb 1, 2012 12:00:54 AM (Printed below)
"In an October 11, 2007 interview with The Washington Post, Paul said, "There's nobody in this world that could possibly attack us today... we could defend this country with a few good submarines. If anybody dared touch us we could wipe any country off of the face of the earth within hours. And here we are, so intimidated and so insecure and we're acting like such bullies that we have to attack third-world nations that have no military and have no weapons."
Do you want this nut at the nuclear button?"
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I'll be certain to read the article that you referenced. In context, he is saying that why are we worried about a third rate country (such as Iran which cannot even provide the gasoline to operate their vehicles) when they couldn't even deliver a nuclear warhead to America thousands of mile away IF THEY EVEN HAD A NUCLEAR WEAPON, which the evidence shows that they don't. I fail to see where you would find it dangerous for Ron Paul to have control of "The button" who advocates going before Congress to obtain a formal declaration of war.
He seems to be making a point about how powerful the U.S. is and is saying that we don't need to spend the money which we are currently doing to impoverish our people. War costs money and we don't have it and if we continue to spend in this fashion, we will NOT have it if and when we do need it. Our "peace" President (Barack Obama) is following the same policies as his predecessor, which leads me to believe that they might just be working for the same Insider Establishment. Why have we spent 10 years in Afghanistan and almost as long in Iraq?
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matthwbar
Champion Author
Toledo
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 9:27:04 PM
Really don't need a strike new...
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CrappieFool
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Alabama
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 9:25:54 PM
@Sammy, since you seem to have either ignored or missed this:
In an October 11, 2007 interview with The Washington Post, Paul said, "There's nobody in this world that could possibly attack us today... we could defend this country with a few good submarines. If anybody dared touch us we could wipe any country off of the face of the earth within hours. And here we are, so intimidated and so insecure and we're acting like such bullies that we have to attack third-world nations that have no military and have no weapons."
Do you want this nut at the nuclear button?
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CrappieFool
All-Star Author
Alabama
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 9:18:06 PM
Dear Sammy, ignoring that Paul is a whacko is not a defense. If you can't see the need for preventive political positioning, you are as whacko as Paul. You only have to look back to the era leading up to WWII to see that you are very naive. Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neville_Chamberlain and think about it. He was all that Ron Paul is on foreign policy.
Although I thought you were experienced at first glance of your posts, it is clear to me now that you are quite the novice and know nothing of history nor how it repeats because of those who can't understand it.
[Edited by: CrappieFool at 2/1/2012 12:24:29 AM EST]
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SammyAdams
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Tallahassee
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 9:16:35 PM
To: CrappieFool Re: Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 11:49:56 PM Printed below)
"Dear Sammy. Stop Dreaming. Paul will NOT be elected. Can NOT be elected. If he runs as a third party candidate, all he will do is help BO. When did this become a thread about Newt? You are starting to come across as a little whacko. ;-)"
------------------------------------------------------------------and
Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 11:45:40 PMRe: (printed below)
"@SammyAdams, the point is moot. Paul is unelectable. Since you ask, I'll give you one. On foreign policy, he stands essentially for neutrality and non-intervention. While this sounds good to some, it isn't realistic. We (the US) tried to do this while WWII was working up. It didn't work. It won't work. Although I can agree to a fine line on this, the US can not stand aside while anti-US regimes build up machines that will do us harm. I like a lot of what Paul says, but I see that he has no plan for the events that will inevitably come with a non-intervention stance.
As I said, Paul keeps some really pertinent issues alive that would not be if not for him, but he is not electable."
-----------------------------------------------------------------
It seems like you would prefer ad hominem attacks rather than discuss the issues. Instead of saying I am "whacko", let's have a mature debate. You did bring out Dr. Paul's foreign Policy, so tell me what is so wrong with bringing our troops home to defend America? Why should my chilDren and grand chilDren pay for defending Japan, Germany, Italy, South Korea, and Israel? Why do I have to pay high prices for gas and consumer items because we have Presidents who won't follow the Constitution and get a declaration of war from Congress before invading countries.
Remember that Pres. Bush went into Iraq in order to get the "Weapons of Mass Destruction" which his administration later admitted that this was based on "bad intelligence". Do you think that our military could defend America better if they were here on our borders rather than on the borders of Pakistan and Afghanistan? Do you think that our armed forces are the personal possession of the sitting President? Perhaps you could show me from the Constitution "where" the authority is given for this nonsense. And you think that following the Constitution is being "whacko"?
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CrappieFool
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Alabama
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 9:16:12 PM
Funny how nobody even talks about the pay scale and bonuses that Union bosses get. Hmmm?
Blood suckers.
[Edited by: CrappieFool at 2/1/2012 12:17:19 AM EST]
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CrappieFool
All-Star Author
Alabama
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 9:03:56 PM
"There sure is a lot of posts about unions.. Why were unions organized
in the first place??? It was to organize workers to bargain with the
companies for many things; wages, working conditions, benefits, and
retirements, to mention a few... Now there are several companies
that treat their employees very well and with all the same or even better
benefits that unions offer. BUT, these companies are far and few and
as these companies are bought out so goes most if not all the benefits
that they had... How many non union companies have given there employees
a $.20 to $.60 or nothing when giving their CEO's a million or more in
bonuses or stocks... Lets look at the whole picture... "
Spoken like a tried and true Union member. Unions long ago outlived there real usefulness. Now they are no better than welfare for unskilled labor at the cost of the rest of the country in higher prices and lower wages for non-Union workers. The ONLY ones whining for Unions are those making MUCH more than they are worth because of Union Greed.
P.S.
I forgot to mention BO. Yep, believe it or not, a Union supporter and Union supported.
[Edited by: CrappieFool at 2/1/2012 12:06:21 AM EST]
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CrappieFool
All-Star Author
Alabama
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 9:00:54 PM
In an October 11, 2007 interview with The Washington Post, Paul said, "There's nobody in this world that could possibly attack us today... we could defend this country with a few good submarines. If anybody dared touch us we could wipe any country off of the face of the earth within hours. And here we are, so intimidated and so insecure and we're acting like such bullies that we have to attack third-world nations that have no military and have no weapons."
Do you want this nut at the nuclear button?
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lightninjack
Sophomore Author
Ohio
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 9:00:26 PM
Alright!!! conflict woo hoo...idiots!!!
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FastAndy
Champion Author
Indianapolis
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:59:03 PM
Let them strike and push gas prices up, and them let them watch their boy Obama lose this fall.
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SparkieMi
Champion Author
Kalamazoo
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:57:44 PM
There sure is a lot of posts about unions.. Why were unions organized
in the first place??? It was to organize workers to bargain with the
companies for many things; wages, working conditions, benefits, and
retirements, to mention a few... Now there are several companies
that treat their employees very well and with all the same or even better
benefits that unions offer. BUT, these companies are far and few and
as these companies are bought out so goes most if not all the benefits
that they had... How many non union companies have given there employees
a $.20 to $.60 or nothing when giving their CEO's a million or more in
bonuses or stocks... Lets look at the whole picture...
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SammyAdams
Champion Author
Tallahassee
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:56:37 PM
Then there's the ultra conservative Sen. Rick Santorum. He voted to raise the national debt "five" times. He also voted to DOUBLE the size of the Federal Dept. of Education. Voted to give Social Security benefits to illegal aliens. He also voted to give $25 million to Communist North Korea and he advocates giving even a higher percentage of our GDP to foreign aid. He claims to be a "pro-life" champion and apparently has many evangelical leaders buffaloed, but then endorsed and campaigned for pro abortion Arlen Specter, who also was the swing vote in the Senate for ObamaCare. Pro-life Sen. Santorum also voted (under Title "X" to appropriate $500,000 to Planned Parenthood, America's largest abortion provider!
I could continue as long as you will listen. These guys are big spending hypocrites who are now lying to get your votes, hoping that Americans have short memories. They will NOT be disappointed. Gingrich was run out of the Congress by his own peers (Democrat and Republican) and Rick Santorum was defeated by the largest majority of an incumbent Republican (59% to 41%) at that time. Their own people couldn't tolerate them, so I suppose that this qualifies them to run for BO's job, huh?
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CrappieFool
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Alabama
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:53:11 PM
"greedy corporate executives will hold out so the working man does not get a raise but they pull in millions in bonuses and the price per gallon goes up "
@boatmen, if you are talking about the Union "working" man. Does he REALLY need a raise? I mean, He already makes MUCH more than the average hourly employee. How does that Union thing keep non-union wages up? Huh? It doesn't. It only drives up costs and thus, the price of everything that the real average working man has to pay.
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RetFireLT
Champion Author
Kentucky
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:53:10 PM
Unions are part of the proble.
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Blue48
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:53:09 PM
NOT GOOD NEWS!
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jindodog
Veteran Author
Missouri
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:50:52 PM
The unions have outlived their usefulness.
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CrappieFool
All-Star Author
Alabama
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:49:56 PM
Dear Sammy. Stop dreaming. Paul will NOT be elected. Can NOT be elected. If he runs as a third party candidate, all he will do is help BO. When did this become a thread about Newt? You are starting to come across as a little whacko. ;-)
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boatmen
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New York
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:45:59 PM
greedy corporate executives will hold out so the working man does not get a raise but they pull in millions in bonuses and the price per gallon goes up
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CrappieFool
All-Star Author
Alabama
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:45:40 PM
@SammyAdams, the point is moot. Paul is unelectable. Since you ask, I'll give you one. On foreign policy, he stands essentially for neutrality and non-intervention. While this sounds good to some, it isn't realistic. We (the US) tried to do this while WWII was working up. It didn't work. It won't work. Although I can agree to a fine line on this, the US can not stand aside while anti-US regimes build up machines that will do us harm. I like a lot of what Paul says, but I see that he has no plan for the events that will inevitably come with a non-intervention stance.
As I said, Paul keeps some really pertinent issues alive that would not be if not for him, but he is not electable.
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SammyAdams
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Tallahassee
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:42:52 PM
Let's start with Newt Gingrich. He bailed out S & L ($40 billion) in 1991. He argued for individuAl heAlth insurance mandates (2008). Helped President Carter create the FederAl Dept. Of Education. Consistently voted for foreign aid. He was fined $300,000 for ethics violations. OriginAlly supported TARP bailout (Until he reAlized how unpopular it was). Teamed up with Nancy Pelosi to promote Al Gore's GlobAl Warming agenda. Received $1.6 million advising Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae while they were ruining the housing market (Ron Paul predicted the housing bubble in 2003 in a speech before his colleagues in Congress).
Do I need to continue with Newt's record?
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BooHooMI
Champion Author
Michigan
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:42:09 PM
People who strike now, as this nation, and the world, teeters on the brink of an economic collapse. unlike any in years past, have become their own worst enemy and their community may struggle to forgive such a serious error in judgement.
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ROSYMI
All-Star Author
Michigan
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:41:43 PM
what else is new
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bonzoonfmb
All-Star Author
Florida
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:39:49 PM
Speculators will or have run up the prices.
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johnd900
Veteran Author
Massachusetts
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:39:40 PM
I'm with Road Runner, we're screwed!
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RAKARWOWSKI
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Chicago
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:35:48 PM
With so many out of work, they are going to strike. Good my sons need jobs.
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CrappieFool
All-Star Author
Alabama
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:33:43 PM
"OK, it is a tie with jspalm47 and g747. I guess there will have to be a tie breaker. "
Or, maybe someone else can post something more ridiculous? Come on now, I have confidence that these two aren't the dimmest bulbs in the closet. ;-)
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SammyAdams
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Tallahassee
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:31:47 PM
To: CrappieFool Re: Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 11:18:34 PM (Printed below)
"Good point SammyAdams, but Ron Paul is also whacko on a lot of issues. Therefor, unelectable. Sorry for the fact, but it is fact. However, he is a good foil to keep certain pertinent issues in the forefront where they would not even be seen otherwise."
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Give me a few examples of these numerous issues about which Ron Paul is whacko.
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Blackice
Champion Author
Twin Cities
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:31:47 PM
Unions SUX! Pay someone $23 an hour for a job someone could do in China for $3 an hour. No wonder jobs have gone overseas.
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CrappieFool
All-Star Author
Alabama
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:31:43 PM
"If this affects prices the blame is going to be on the unions, not big oil!! "
And rightly so.
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Road-Runner
Champion Author
Denver
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:31:26 PM
Oh Joy! Now we're really screwed!
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CrappieFool
All-Star Author
Alabama
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:30:59 PM
OK, it is a tie with jspalm47 and g747. I guess there will have to be a tie breaker.
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Throroughbred
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Cleveland
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:30:16 PM
If this affects prices the blame is going to be on the unions, not big oil!!
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CrappieFool
All-Star Author
Alabama
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:26:02 PM
Second place for most ridiculous post in this thread goes to g747.
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CrappieFool
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Alabama
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:24:29 PM
"Give them what they want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.We don't need anymore misery @ the pump!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. "
@g747, it is never a good idea to negotiate with terrorists. ;-(
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bif65
All-Star Author
Virginia
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:23:42 PM
ok
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g747
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Mobile
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:22:57 PM
Give them what they want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.We don't need anymore misery @ the pump!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
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darkknight1
Champion Author
Winston-Salem
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:21:31 PM
There go the gas prices again and they won't come down.
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GnJC
Rookie Author
Tucson
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:18:53 PM
Unbelievable.....
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CrappieFool
All-Star Author
Alabama
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:18:34 PM
Good point SammyAdams, but Ron Paul is also whacko on a lot of issues. Therefor, unelectable. Sorry for the fact, but it is fact. However, he is a good foil to keep certain pertinent issues in the forefront where they would not even be seen otherwise.
I haven't seen a political platform yet without at least a few warps planks.
[Edited by: CrappieFool at 1/31/2012 11:20:31 PM EST]
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tippybuddy
Champion Author
Ontario
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:17:31 PM
just what everyone needs a strike...
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weenerdog
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Detroit
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:16:32 PM
Great, a strike.
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SammyAdams
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Tallahassee
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:15:44 PM
The biggest tragedy, however, is that the real culprit is getting away unscathed. That would be the GOVERNMENT who taxes and regulates small businesses and then distributes the booty (via counterfeit Federal Reserve notes) to non producers; driving up prices for everyone. When warned about this from an honest candidate like Congressman Ron Paul, we the sheeple will vote the same bums back in office.
I would like to see those who whine and complain about the high cost of everything and then elect the same crooks get what they deserve. But those of us who are trying to expose the shenanigans of these traitors, get punished right along with the numb-numbs who never learn. Why can't we see the voting records of Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum and Mitt Romney? They have given our money away to deadbeat nations, wasted trillion$ on never ending wars defending the world, and have destroyed our economy in the process.
Then these politicians blame everyone EXCEPT the ones who have caused the problem. . . . THEMSELVES! They will continue this outrage until we let them know that we will not take any more and mean it. The Tea party is becoming worthless, having been co-opted by the neocon Republicans. How can any one of them accuse BO when they have supported the same bailouts and wasteful spending as the Democrats?
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nightworker998
Champion Author
Maryland
Posts:1,280
Points:537,740
Joined:Mar 2009
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2012 8:12:56 PM
To AnObserver you don't think they know that? Keep your car full and fill every gas can you have. If there is a strike expect gas to jump to $4 if it lasts more than a month expect $5!
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